Irrawaddy interview

Nov 24, 2004

Interview with Min Ko Naing

By Aung Zaw

Min Ko Naing was released on November 19, after having been imprisoned for 15 years in Burma. Irrawaddy carried out the following telephone interview with him.

Q: Are you surprised with your release?

A: Not really. It’s the end (of my imprisonment). I felt satisfied with the end. As you know, it is exhausting to continually hope. You would be exhausted if you did not accomplish your hopes. As I have suffered in the past, I decided that when good things eventually did happen to me, I should try to face them with calmness. So, (when I was released), I tried to remain calm. In Pali we call it “jo-ni-thao:manathi-kara”.

Everyone has certain triumphs in life. Afterwards, conceit can follow. If it doesn't, then we can give praise to that person. On the other hand, we shouldn't be affected by failure. Some people lose their composure due to failure. It’s ungraceful. As I remember it, I calmly stepped out of the prison. I didn’t display either happiness or unhappiness. I tried to remain calm. I came back home like someone who has finished his work.

Q: The Burmese military government announced that you, and over 3000 prisoners, were freed because intelligence personnel committed wrongdoings with regards to your case. If so, do you think that you were arrested because of the wrongdoings of MI?

A: I know only about the activists. I mean, I know about my case. It’s not proper to talk about people that I don’t know at all. As for me, I was satisfied with my release under this announcement. So, I assume that it was rather appropriate for the authorities to free me for this reason. They, (the authorities), tried their best to be flexible and chose the most appropriate reasoning for the truth. That’s all I want to say.

Q: Analysts both inside and outside of Burma are questioning why you were released now. They are all puzzled. The Asean summit meeting is being held soon and (the junta) is coming under pressure from the international community, as well as from the people of Burma. Some people assume that your release is related to these circumstances. What is your idea with regards to this?

A: The problem is that I didn’t know at all what was happening outside of prison. (The authorities) may have an answer for the above question. I now understand that the International community had been placing pressure (upon the junta) for a long time. Is this the only reason for my release? What about the situation of (the authorities) at present? Has their attitude totally changed? Are they really making a way for reconciliation? I have thought about it. I can't say exactly.

Q: If so, do you mean that there is hope?

A: Belief is better than hope. I once wrote about hope in a poem. The poem says that “Belief is good". However, some issues are out of our control. While we can’t work alone on certain issues, we can hope and guess (for the response of) the other side. If we don't want to use the word “hope”, I think that we can use the word “assumption”. Let me say that I have made an assumption.

Q: Does this assumption reflect a better condition?

A: Of course, it seems that the thing we are all hoping for is getting closer now. I shouldn’t say more than that.

Q: Did you stay with other prisoners while you were in Insein prison?

A: The other prisoners that I was detained with are mostly elderly, such as Win Htein (NLD), and Win Tin (NLD), Tin Aung, Ko Ko Naing (KNU), and the elected MP, Khin Maung Swe. I haven't heard any news about their release.

Q: If so, you were not alone in Rangoon’s Insein prison.

A: We were all in solitary confinement. We were all in the same cell block; however, we weren't able to see each other.

Q: You were all together.

A: There are cells in the building. We were put in different cells and were not allowed to go out of the cells. In front of each cell, there's an empty cell. Nobody is put in there. It’s the idea (of the authorities) to create loneliness (for the prisoners). Sometimes, there was no one next to me. However, I knew who was in the other cells, even though we couldn’t see each other. Sometimes, if we wanted to talk to each other, we tried to climb (on the wall) and talk in loud voices.

Q: How did they treat you during the infamous interrogation period?

A: To tell you the truth, I was not beaten. Some (intelligence personnel) even spoke softly and politely, although others were rather arrogant. It’s natural. I also reacted in accordance with their behavior.

Q: At that time, did they say accidentally why they had arrested you?

A: They didn’t mention about it directly. However, they didn't seem able to agree about some of my activities.

Q: Whilst you were in prison, did you feel that the authorities were afraid of the name and the influence of 'Min Ko Naing'?

A: Not really. I am just one of the human beings. Let me use the words of Minister U Paw Oo (of Burma’s Kon Baung Dynasty). "I can’t swim across the river if others can’t. If others can cross the river by boat, than I can as well." That’s it.

Q: Were you allowed to read books?

A: I was not allowed to read any books for the first ten years of my imprisonment. After twelve years in prison, the ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross) visited me. Then, I was allowed to read a bit. The ICRC gave me some reading materials. However, the authorities who censored the books took a very long time. After the ICRC’s regular visits, my family was allowed to send me books. My family sent me books on religion and other subjects – although not related to politics. The authorities allowed me to read books in accordance with their policy. Since that time, I started to read books.

Q: During your twelfth year of imprisonment, were you in Sittwe prison?

A: Yes and I was allowed to read books long after I was moved to Sittwe.

Q: Are visits from the ICRC good (for political prisoners)? You got more opportunities because of its visits.

A: Of course. Can I say that the improvements were maybe due to the visits? I don’t know exactly.

Q: In 1992 or 1993, did some US congressmen visit you in Insein prison?

A: Yes, I remember it.

Q: According to the press, you sent out the message “Don’t give up” (through the congressmen). Did you really say this?

A: I did. The intelligence officers were around us and listened to us. I said it exactly as you have read it.

Q: What you are going to do now?

A: I will have a meal after talking with you... (laughing). The intelligence officers also raised the same question... (more laughing). Hey, I’m not kidding, it’s true!

Q: In prison, how much outside information did you receive?

A: How could I get it? No one was allowed to approach us. You know, even a cat was not allowed to enter the special cell block (of Insein prison)... even a bird may have been shot down (if it flew over the ward). So, how could I get any information?

Q: Did you hear about events such as Aung San Suu Kyi's release and rearrest, or when the Prime Minister Khin Nyunt was ousted?

A: There’s a joke among the political prisoners. What we heard was that (the UN Secretary General’s representative) Razali was coming (to Burma). After a long time, we heard that Razili was in Burma. Then, later, Razili went back. Therefore we hoped that something good would come out of his trip. We were in a circle of rumors. I was one of the (political prisoners in this circle). My situation was worse than others because I was in total solitary confinement.

Q: Did you meet with (the UN Human Rights Special Reporteur on Burma) Pinheiro?

Pinheiro! It seems that I have heard about this name; but, I don’t know much.

Q: Is you know named Yozoyokota (the former Special Reporteur)?

A: Yes, I met him. He told me that he came on the issue of human rights and he'd like to know if there were any human rights in Burma or not. I replied that I didn't know whether there were human rights or not in Burma. (The authorities) didn’t allow me to meet with any other human beings. (They) even cut the connection between me and the Lord Buddha. I was not allowed to read any religious books. I remember that I told him mainly about this.

Q: Did you have religious works?

A: Yes, I did; finally, I had them. I carried out meditation… so, I was able to survive.

Q: Do you know why you were sent to Sittwe prison unexpectedly?

A: Of course, I was told something about it. The director of the prison department asked “How’s the situation? Are you okay staying here? There is more space here, isn’t there?” Then I asked, “Why have I been moved here?” Scratching his head, he said “Oh! How can I know? That’s a problem!” Then, he ran out.

Q: Only you were transferred, what do you make of that?

A: To Sittwe? One thing was possible. The name “Sittwe” represents the planet Mars. I am Thursday-born and belong to the planet of Jupiter. According to astrology, Mars triumphs over Jupiter. Do you know Mars and Jupiter? I think that I belong to the planet of Jupiter, and that is why I was moved to Sittwe, a name that belongs to Mars. That’s what I think. You know, people who believe in astrology use the stars to guide their actions.

Now, I have another telephone call. Let’s stop here.

Q: You have another telephone call?!

A: Yes. I have a telephone appointment.

Q: Do you have any plans for further education or international trips?

A: I haven’t thought about those things yet. Let’s talk about it later if you want.